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I was told to show up at four in the afternoon. I ended up sitting for an hour in the waiting room, which looked sweetly tacky—less like Keith Richards's waiting room and more like some suburban dude's recroom Stones shrine. There were some tattered old People mags on a black metal TVless TV stand, an empty pair of Moroccan candleholders, and a bunch of framed album covers (Steel Wheels, Voodoo Lounge) and photos. One wall had a poster for the movie Chuck Berry Hail! Hail! Rock 'n' Roll. (Tagline: "The whole world knows the music. Nobody knows the man.") There was even a dusty Ronnie Wood bobblehead doll. It all felt very eBayready.
At one point an employee, a little fluffy white dog trailing at her heels, walked through and headed into the kitchen that was next to the waiting room. She apologized—not for my having to wait but for interrupting my waiting—and explained, "I need to prepare something for Mr. Richards."
She opened the freezer, cracked some ice cubes into one of those red plastic Solo cups, and filled it to the brim with Ketel One.
More minutes went by. Maybe fifteen. At which point, the employee returned and told me Keith was ready. I was led back to his office. Keith was standing there, holding that red Solo cup, a cigarette dangling from his lips like only Keith Richards can make a cigarette dangle from his lips. He was wearing a green leather motorcycle jacket over a green velvet vest over a green Tshirt. He had on black jeans. And on his feet, purple Uggs.
"Howya doin', mate Sorry I'm late," he said. And then he plopped onto the green velvet love seat and kind of folded in on himself, like an unstaked scarecrow. He patted the cushion next to him. "Have a seat, mate."
How long have you had this place
I have no idea._ laughs _We were up in Broadway by Carnegie Hall for many, many years, and then the lease ran out.
And you couldn't afford it, right
_laughs _I very rarely come to the office.
That's a shocker.
Yeah, that's me. A real ninetofiver.
(Excuse me, reader, but I'd be remiss if I did not interrupt here to tell you briefly about how Keith speaks. It's not speaking, actually. Or at least not what you think of as speaking. It's more of a slurmumble. Words run together and then get coated in cigarette smoke and that thick accent. It makes you wish he provided his own subtitles. I mean, when I transcribed the tapes from this interview, I had to listen to each sentence maybe three times to decode it. Further complicating matters was the incessant ambient noise: the clatter of the ice cubes as he swirled his drink between sips. And then there's the way he loops out his answers in, well, let's say a uniquely…Keith way. You'll see what I mean.)
So, I just saw the new movie—the concert movie by Scorsese. And it got me thinking about the Stones' history with documentaryfilm makers.…
You're talking Robert Frank here. Cocksucker Blues—
Yeah.
big laugh
After that movie—and all the controversy with it and everything it caught on film, the groupies, the drugs—I'm surprised you ever let another filmmaker in. Was there trepidation about letting Scorsese in
I think it was the fact that it was Martin. We've got enough on our hands. We've got a show to do. And usually when he's filming, you look around on the stage and think, Who of us is aware he's making a movie and who of us just wants to put on a good show for people But you've got, you know, Mick, the prima donna: "Oh no, we shouldn't do it." laughs I have to tell him, "Get that outta your head, boy! We're just gonna do a show, and Martin's gonna capture it." And that's the whole point. I just wanted to see what Martin Scorsese could make out of the Stones. I really didn't want to interfere. I said, "I'm gonna do my bit, Martin. You do yours." The first time we met, he was like: affects Scorsese's hurried voice "I just wanna shoot a show."_ laughs_ Charlie Watts is brilliant makes praying sign with his hands and looks toward heaven as usual for just going on and playing. He's like, "If he can make a movie out of that, good luck!"
Between Martin and Mick, you have to deal with two control freaks.
Exactly. Which is why I was not gonna put my aura in. I was just gonna give Martin what it was he wanted, which is a damned good Rolling Stones film. That's the gig.
When was the last time you watched one of the old Stones documentaries
Not very often, I must say. When_ Cocksucker Blues_ turns up, I do.
You don't own a copy
No, I don't. I mean, I guess I do, but it's probably buried. Hell, I'm not a big one for watching myself.
What are your memories of working with JeanLuc Godard on Sympathy for the Devil
conspiratorially Like working with a French bank clerk. laughs I mean, he was out of his depth in England. Just like William the Conqueror! He might've taken the place over, but he was out of his depth. I mean, I knew Godard's movies from before, and I was like, "Oh, JeanLuc Godard!" And I realized he must have hit a middleaged crisis or… What he was trying to make of England, in England, was, uh… Did you ever get the drift of that movie It's like some Marxist students got ahold of him. And this is a guy who's made some incredible movies. And you wonder, you know, where the stupidity creeps in. He should have stayed with French novels.
Could the Rolling Stones of the '60s have survived this paparazzi tabloid culture Or would you have been crushed by it
It's very interesting, because the Stones, along with Stones manager Andrew Oldham, that demon, we went out in order to manipulate the press. You know, "Would you let your daughter marry a Stone" Andrew realized that perception is more important than what actually is. I mean, all you really have is two guitar players, a bass player, and a singer. And they're quite normal chaps. But…I will say this about the Stones, just as an aside: Given the circumstances, we're probably four of the most straightup, moral guys you could actually meet.
How do you mean that
We're guys who've not really taken advantage of what we could have. Or what we could have done. It's always been that it's just too obvious. laughs I mean, the odd groupie here and there. Which we actually used to look upon as, uh, gas stations.… "Uh, we're in Cincinnati, so…we need to fill 'er up a little." And the other thing about groupies, it wasn't just boinkyboinky. They used to take_ care_ of you. They used to rub Vicks on your chest if you had a cold. Sometimes you'd never do anything. Sometimes they were just…nasty. laughs Get my drift laughs
Do you miss them
I don't miss them.
Everyone has their fiction of what it was like, is like, to be a Stone, and…
This is one of those things I'll never know, which is other people's perceptions of it. But it depends on who you are talking to when you ask, "What does the Stones mean" I mean, you could ask a bunch of 12yearold guitar players, and they'd say one thing. And then there's the aura, the rock 'n' roll sexual aura. And also, it just keeps changing. I mean, the weird thing is—is that holding a band this long together… Actually, they won't leave me. laughs But what I'm trying to say about this is, this band, man…it's nonsensical, in a way. Because now I realize this band is what I always thought it was. This is Count Basie. This is Duke Ellington. I mean, guys that keep bands together that long, there's a meaning. I'm just looking for the meaning.
Let's talk about women. Specifically, you and Brian and Anita Pallenberg in Morocco, when you stole her from Brian.
I had no intention of stealing his woman. I was trying to heal certain things that had been going on, on the road with Brian. To me, somebody in the band needed to deck him. But, um, that whole area gets into… I'm hanging with Brian and Anita and having a good time, and then I thought, Eventually, I've got to get her out of here before she kills him. I'm trying to save my band here, and she's so much tougher than him. And he's asking for trouble. Look, every time they had a fight, I called up for bandages, and it turns out I'd have to send them round to Brian. laughs Actually, what I guess I'm saying is that there was a conflict there that had to be broken. And I broke it. I said, "C'mon, girl, get out of here. This is no fun." Now, that didn't help my chances with making up with Brian.
Yet you did make up.
Yes, in a way. The real break came because Brian just insisted on keeping on being Brian. You feel it when you're out in the middle of the Midwest, playing Tulsa or somewhere, and your other guitar player ain't there. He's sacked out in a hospital in Chicago because he got too stoned. When you've been on the road for 350 days a year—it might seem like a minor thing now, as I speak to it—but when you've been on the road and you've got to cover for him, things get a little antsy, you know_wwww_ growls
Where do you think Mick Jagger would be if he'd never met you
Nowhere! big laugh He'd be just another wannabe. And so would I. There is an incredible chemistry with the Stones. I don't want to analyze it. I don't want to dickle in it. To me, Charlie Watts is the foundation of it all, because that's what I work off of, and we've been doing it all our lives. Rolling Stones founder Ian Stewart—I must give my man Ian, and I think Charlie would agree, on a good day—it's Ian Stewart's band. We're just keeping it together for him. It was his vision. It all comes from purity, you know Which sounds really weird coming from me, right
You mention morality. Let's talk about you as family men. The image of you guys in the South of France in a château, doing drugs, guzzling wine, creating Exile—and yet the whole family is there. Wives. Kids. It wasn't exactly Parenting 101.
I suppose my kids will tell you they were raised by a father who was a bit of a nomad, and there were times when we'd all be together, and there are times when you aren't. It's a bit of Herman Melville, you know. "Off to whaling. See you in three years!" Or not. And I don't think any of us have found it that difficult. If you check out the record of the Stones' kids—my kids, Mick's kids—they're pretty stable cats.
What advice have you given them
None at all. If they've got problems, get in touch with me. Or if not, just come and see me anytime. If I'm in Australia and you're having a problem, come on over. I mean, I've never gone that far.… My kids came to me when I bashed my head stupidly in Fiji, and it's the worst place in the world to have brain damage. And almost before I was transferred to New Zealand, my kids were there. Because there's love. And that's what I teach. Love. You know, you can fuck up and…well, look at Dad! laughs
Obviously, your daughters have brought guys home to meet you.
I know loads of their eoyfriends.
I'd think a guy would get pretty psyched out, having to come and meet you.
I'd hope so!
Do you go out of your way to break their balls
I always threaten to chop 'em off! laughs But what dad doesn't, eh "You want to keep that, kid" Whack!
Didn't Mick screw around with Anita
Possibly yes. Probably during the making of that movie Performance.
How did you and Mick get past that
At the time, I didn't know and I didn't really care.
You didn't
No. I mean, Anita and I, it was never like we were ever married. And, uh, you don't try and ride a bitch like that, baby, without thinking that they're not gonna—you know. Had it. Been there. It's a load of crap, you know I mean, I've done Mick's chicks, too.
How many chicks do you think you guys have in common
After Marianne Faithfull, it's a stable. laughs
More than five
No. I don't want to mention other bitches' names, because I've stolen quite a few off of him and, uh, he's nudged his way into my lot, but not significantly. After the Anita thing, I made a point of stealing every bitch he had. laughs
But not his current one
whispers I wouldn't take that one on!
At Mick's gayest, how gay was he
It was camp.
Camp
Yeah. It was all… I really have no idea if anyone ever shoved it up the shitter.
Not even Bowie
No. I mean, dickering and dangling… I'm not there watching it every day. You know what I mean, mate But there was, at the time, a load of excruciatingly painful campness that went on.
Did you want to smack him
No. I mean, it was limpwristed sort of… affects Truman Capote–ish mumbling But I mean, how does a bunch of guys stay together this long without letting certain things just wash over We wouldn't be here if we weren't doin' what we gotta do. Which is having to come up with great records and songs and play to people. The reason you're here is because, above and beyond anything, you want to get out there and turn people on. Including yourself, of course. laughs
Most guys I know consider you the soul of the band. And you talk about a moral center—
Well, I have one! laughs
But everyone thinks you're the dark, tortured soul.
There's a lotta soul in the band. I mean, it's a matter of how much you wanna bury it. I guess that's my declension. I'm—
_At this point, Richards, as he is talking, absentmindedly reaches his hand to his side and draws his shirt and jacket back to scratch himself near his hip bone. It's then that I notice that wedged against his hip and the top of his trousers is something that looks like the handle of a revolver. "That's not a gun you're carrying, is it" I ask. Keith pauses. "This" he says, reaching for the handle. "Nah, this is a knife." At which point he pulls it from his waistband, flips it open, and reveals a shiny blade five inches long. Richards considers the blade for a moment, in silence, then snaps the knife closed and tucks it back into his waistband and explains, "I use it to keep me pants up, because I've been losing weight, baby." Richards has also had a few health problems over the past couple of years, most notably when he fell off a tree branch while vacationing in Fiji in April 2007 and hit his head on the root of the tree, which was incorrectly reported as falling out of a coconut tree. Richards suffered swelling, and fluid built up in his skull, requiring surgery. _
Let's talk about Fiji. You had to be trepanned—you had a hole drilled into your skull.
Yeah, yeah.
So what was that like
It was a trifle weird, lying on a gurney on Vicodin, and I'd been there like ten days by then, and they were going through the motions, and by this time I'd got to know this doctor pretty well. He said, "Now you're stabilized; you can now fly to Manhattan or London, because you're gonna need an operation. That stuff needs to be drained out of your head." And I said, "I ain't goin' nowhere! We're doing it now! Here. I ain't goin' through all of that and traveling and flying." But I said to the anesthetist, "Listen, it's pretty hard to put me out." laughs
Did you have strange dreams after
The first six months, I was a little offbalance…a little less patience with some of my friends. laughs But basically, no. It was like going in for a broken rib. I've done all the ribs. I've done the head. There's nothing else left to break. laughs Doctors all over the world want my body when it finally goes.
You should sell your body on eBay.
Yeah, I think so. Apparently, I do have an incredible immune system. I had hepatitis C and cured it by myself.
How
Just by being me.
The legendary blood transfusions
That's all bullshit. Bullshit. I put that out because I was gonna have to clean up from all the dope. There's nothing like legend.
